Why fighting in Afghanistan persists, 17 years after the war began
2018-10-09 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: The United States has now beenfighting in Afghanistan for 17 years.(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:美国现在已经在阿富汗战斗了17年。

For that entire time, Dr. Abdullah Abdullahhas sat at the forefront of Afghan politics.(2)
在整个时间里,阿卜杜拉·阿卜杜拉博士一直站在阿富汗政治的最前沿。

He twice ran for president in fraud-riddledelections, and twice lost.(3)
他曾两次竞选总统,参与欺诈行为,两次失败。

After a bitter post-election fight in 2014with eventual winner Ashraf Ghani, Abdullah(4)
经过2014年选举后的激烈争斗,最终赢家阿什拉夫加尼,阿卜杜拉

signed a power-sharing agreement and becamechief executive officer.(5)
签署了权力分享协议并成为首席执行官。

The Taliban and other insurgents still conductdaily attacks, and the country's stability(6)
塔利班和其他叛乱分子仍在进行日常攻击,以及该国的稳定

remains in doubt.(7)
仍有疑问。

To discuss all this, Nick Schifrin is backwith this interview he taped recently in New(8)
为了讨论这一切,Nick Schifrin回来了他最近在New的录音

York.(9)
约克。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Dr. Abdullah Abdullah, chiefexecutive of Afghanistan, thank you very much.(10)
尼克·施菲林:阿富汗首席执行官阿卜杜拉·阿卜杜拉博士,非常感谢你。

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, Afghan Chief Executive:You're welcome.(11)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH,阿富汗首席执行官:不客气。

NICK SCHIFRIN: There are now 26 districtsunder the Taliban control, according to your(12)
NICK SCHIFRIN:根据您的说法,现在塔利班控制下有26个地区

government.(13)
政府。

More than 5,000 civilians became casualtieslast year, according to the U.N., one of the(14)
根据联合国的一份报告,去年有5000多名平民成为伤亡人员

highest totals ever.(15)
有史以来最高的总数。

Why do you think there hasn't been more progressin Afghanistan?(16)
为什么你认为阿富汗没有取得更多进展?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: The -- that's one sideof the picture, which is challenging, of course,(17)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:这是图片的一面,当然,这很有挑战性,

and is a challenge for us.(18)
对我们来说是一个挑战。

The other side of the picture shows progressin the lives of the citizens and the economy,(19)
图片的另一面显示了公民和经济生活的进步,

in (INAUDIBLE) generation, education services,private sector development.(20)
(听不清)发电,教育服务,私营部门发展。

And the fact that there isn't more progressis the fact that the security still is a challenge.(21)
事实上,没有更多的进展是安全仍然是一个挑战。

And it absorbs most of our resources, energyand time.(22)
它吸收了我们的大部分资源,能源和时间。

NICK SCHIFRIN: About a year ago, PresidentTrump announced a new South Asia strategy.(23)
NICK SCHIFRIN:大约一年前,特朗普总统宣布了一项新的南亚战略。

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States:My original instinct was to pull out.(24)
唐纳德·特朗普,美国总统:我原来的本能就是退出。

And, historically, I like following my instincts.(25)
而且,从历史上看,我喜欢追随自己的直觉。

NICK SCHIFRIN: President Trump has expressedskepticism about keeping troops in Afghanistan.(26)
尼克·施菲林:特朗普总统对在阿富汗驻军表示怀疑。

Do you think the strategy is sustainable?(27)
您认为该战略是否可持续?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: To make it work is -- ofcourse, part of it is for us inside the country,(28)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:让它成功 - 当然,它的一部分是为了我们国内的,

as authorities, as well as the citizens ofthat country.(29)
当局以及该国公民。

And part of it is the cooperation from theregion, which the strategy has a regional(30)
其中一部分是该地区的合作,该战略具有区域性

aspect in it.(31)
它的方面。

Another part of it is dealing with the sanctuaries.(32)
另一部分是处理保护区。

NICK SCHIFRIN: So you just used the word sanctuary.(33)
NICK SCHIFRIN:所以你刚用了庇护所这个词。

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: Yes.(34)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:是的。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Are you referring to Pakistan?(35)
尼克·施菲林:你指的是巴基斯坦?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: Yes.(36)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:是的。

That part of the issue remains to be, still,an impediment, a challenge.(37)
问题的这一部分仍然是一个障碍,一个挑战。

NICK SCHIFRIN: The U.S. has spent $750 billionon security in Afghanistan and $125 billion(38)
尼克·施菲林:美国在阿富汗的安全和1250亿美元上花费了7500亿美元

on reconstruction.(39)
重建。

Those of us who lived in Afghanistan knowthat it's not about the money.(40)
我们这些住在阿富汗的人知道这不是钱。

But it has been 17 years.(41)
但它已经17年了。

Why do you believe that this strategy cansucceed, where the last 17 years of strategy(42)
为什么你认为这个战略能够成功,在过去17年的战略中

hasn't produced the results that were promised?(43)
没有产生承诺的结果?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: There were detractions.(44)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:有一些违法行为。

Engagement in Iraq was when one detraction.(45)
伊拉克的参与是一次贬值。

The announcement of withdrawal in 2012, whichcreated an aura of uncertainty, that was another(46)
2012年的退出公告创造了一种不确定的光环,这是另一种情况

detraction, into that affected the securitysituation, economic situation, and also the(47)
这种影响安全局势,经济形势,以及影响安全局势的因素

calculus of friends and foes towards Afghanistan.(48)
朋友和敌人对阿富汗的微积分。

These are behind us now.(49)
现在这些都在我们身后。

The responsibility on the shoulders of Afghansecurity forces, mainly security defense forces,(50)
阿富汗安全部队肩负的责任,主要是安全防卫部队,

that's a big shift.(51)
这是一个很大的转变。

So that means that the U.S. is not havingthe same burden on it shoulders that they(52)
所以这意味着美国没有同样的负担

used to have.(53)
曾经拥有。

NICK SCHIFRIN: Now, what about commitmentfrom senior Afghans to the United States?(54)
尼克·施菲林:现在,阿富汗高级官员对美国的承诺如何?

There have been some prominent political figuresand parliamentarians recently, as you know,(55)
如你所知,最近有一些着名的政治人物和议员,

who questioned the utility of the bilateralsecurity agreement between Afghanistan and(56)
质疑阿富汗与阿富汗之间双边安全协议的效用

the United States.(57)
美国。

Does that signal an erosion of trust in NATOand the United States on the Afghan side?(58)
这是否意味着北约和美国在阿富汗方面的信任受到侵蚀?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: I will say that considerthat as part of freedom of speech.(59)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:我会说,考虑到这是言论自由的一部分。

There was a meeting, there was a get-togetherfor another purpose and some political leaders(60)
举行了一次会议,为了另一个目的和一些政治领导人进行了聚会

which had their own -- which had developedtheir own opinions in the past few years,(61)
有自己的 - 在过去几年中已经形成了自己的意见,

based on different reasons.(62)
基于不同的原因。

At times, for example, when we have civiliancasualties as a result of military operations,(63)
有时,例如,当我们因军事行动而造成平民伤亡时,

people are upset.(64)
人们很沮丧。

You don't expect those families which havegiven losses to come and praise all of us,(65)
你不要指望那些遭受损失的家庭来赞美我们所有人,

including us in the government.(66)
包括我们在政府中。

NICK SCHIFRIN: The U.S. has begun talks withthe Taliban about future peace negotiations.(67)
尼克·施菲林:美国已开始与塔利班就未来的和平谈判进行谈判。

Have you seen any evidence the Taliban isserious about this round of talks, more serious(68)
你有没有看到任何证据证明塔利班对这一轮会谈是认真的,更为严肃

perhaps than they have been about previousrounds?(69)
也许比以前的几轮还要多?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: That remains to be seen.(70)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:还有待观察。

Taliban so far has not -- have not shown realintentions.(71)
到目前为止塔利班还没有 - 没有表现出真正的意图。

From time to time, they have participatedin some contacts with talks, and then used(72)
他们不时参加一些谈话,然后使用

it only for P.R. purposes, which were notthe purpose of those meetings or those contacts.(73)
它仅用于公关目的,这不是那些会议或那些联系的目的。

The pressure on Taliban inside Afghanistanshould continue, military security-wise.(74)
在军事安全方面,阿富汗内部对塔利班的压力应该继续存在。

And to -- outside Afghanistan, also, theyshould -- they should feel pressure.(75)
而且 - 在阿富汗境外,他们应该 - 他们应该感到压力。

NICK SCHIFRIN: There used to be a lot morepressure on them, because there used to be(76)
NICK SCHIFRIN:曾经有过更多的压力,因为曾经有过

100,000 U.S. troops.(77)
10万美军。

So why would they come to the table and speakdirectly to you, the Afghan government, which(78)
那么他们为什么要到桌子上直接与你说话,阿富汗政府呢?

is what the U.S. is asking for, when theywouldn't in the past?(79)
美国要求什么,他们什么时候不会?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: Now Taliban don't havethe same excuse as they were using, because(80)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:现在塔利班没有他们使用的相同借口,因为

they are facing the Afghan forces.(81)
他们正面对阿富汗军队。

The Afghan security forces were nonexistent17 years back.(82)
17年前,阿富汗安全部队一直不存在。

Part of the strategy is to double the sizeof our commando forces, which are effective(83)
战略的一部分是将突击队的规模扩大一倍,这是有效的

forces, the air force.(84)
部队,空军。

These are the capabilities which will -- whichwill enable us to pursue dual track.(85)
这些能力将使我们能够追求双轨。

One is to protect our citizens.(86)
一个是保护我们的公民。

The second one is to find out, whenever thereis an opportunity for talks and negotiations,(87)
第二个是在有机会进行谈判和谈判时找出答案,

seize it and to capitalize on it.(88)
抓住它并利用它。

NICK SCHIFRIN: The presidential election isin April.(89)
尼克·施菲林:总统大选是在四月举行。

Will you be running with President Ghani oragainst him?(90)
你会和加尼总统竞争还是反对他?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: There is a solid commitmentin my part to help the unity government function(91)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:我本人坚定地致力于帮助团结政府发挥作用

until the last day of its mandate.(92)
直到其任务的最后一天。

To run with President Ghani is not an optionfor me, in the same token, with any other(93)
与Ghani总统一起竞选对我来说不是一个选择,与其他任何人一样

candidate.(94)
候选人。

NICK SCHIFRIN: And, today, you're in the UnitedStates.(95)
NICK SCHIFRIN:今天,你在美国。

What's your message to U.S. officials you'remeeting with and to American viewers who might(96)
您向美国官员发出的信息是什么,以及可能与美国观众见面的信息

still be skeptical about the war?(97)
仍对战争持怀疑态度?

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH: The U.S. have made a biginvestment in peace, in fact, and stability(98)
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH:美国在和平,事实和稳定方面进行了大量投资

of a part of the world.(99)
世界的一部分。

While we are grateful, grateful, our peoplealso have made big sacrifices.(100)
我们感激不尽,感激不尽,我们的人民也做出了巨大的牺牲。

Together, we have been through this journey.(101)
我们一起度过了这段历程。

My message is that it is doable.(102)
我的信息是,它是可行的。

It's also in the interests of peace and stabilityin that part of the world that we complete(103)
在我们完成的这个地区,这也符合和平与稳定的利益

this journey together.(104)
这个旅程在一起。


All News Articles fetched from PBS RSS Feeds and copyrighted by pbs.org