Kobach: Illegal immigration constitutes emergency under 'extraordinarily broad' act
2019-02-15 00:00:00


AMNA NAWAZ: Now perspective from someone whoadvocates for stricter policies on immigration(1)
AMNA NAWAZ:现在有人主张更严格的移民政策

and a vocal advocate for expanding the borderwall.(2)
以及扩大边界墙的声音倡导者。

Kris Kobach is Kansas' former secretary ofstate.(3)
Kris Kobach是堪萨斯州的前国务卿。

Mr. Kobach, welcome back to the "NewsHour."(4)
Kobach先生,欢迎回到“NewsHour”。

I want to ask you. The president said earlierin the Rose Garden, "I don't need to do this,"(5)
我要问你。总统早些时候在玫瑰园说过,“我不需要这样做”。

meaning declare a national emergency. He saidhe just wanted to get the wall built faster.(6)
意思是宣布国家紧急状态。他说他只是想让墙更快地建造。

So help us understand, what is the emergencyhere?(7)
所以帮助我们了解,这里的紧急情况是什么?

KRIS KOBACH (R), Former Kansas Secretary ofState: Well, listening to Attorney General(8)
KRIS KOBACH(R),堪萨斯州前国务卿:嗯,听司法部长说

Becerra talk, you know, I think he pointedout that reasonable people can disagree as(9)
Becerra说,你知道,我认为他指出合理的人可以不同意

to how urgent any emergency is.(10)
紧急情况有多紧急。

And reasonable people can disagree on whetherthe National Emergencies Act should be big(11)
合理的人们可能不同意国家紧急状态法是否应该很大

enough to encompass what's going on todaywith President Trump's declaration.(12)
足以包含特朗普总统宣言所发生的事情。

But the law is really, really clear, thatbasically the law says that a national emergency(13)
但法律确实非常明确,基本上法律规定国家紧急状态

is something that the president deems a nationalemergency. And that's why it's been used 58(14)
是总统认为是全国性的紧急事件。这就是它被使用58的原因

times; 31 national emergencies are still ineffect. Did you know that there's a emergency(15)
倍; 31个国家紧急情况仍然有效。你知道有紧急情况吗?

still in effect that Bush put in place forthe Belarus elections?(16)
布什为白俄罗斯选举制定了哪些措施呢?

There's one about Burundi that's in effect.And most Americans haven't felt any impact(17)
关于布隆迪的一个有效。大多数美国人都没有感受到任何影响

of those things at all. So, it really is anextraordinarily broad statute that Congress(18)
那些东西都没有。所以,国会真的是一个非常广泛的法规

wrote in 1976.(19)
写于1976年。

So, I believe that what President Trump didtoday clearly fits within the National Emergencies(20)
所以,我相信特朗普总统今天所做的事情显然符合国家紧急情况

Act, because it's so broad.(21)
行动,因为它是如此广泛。

Now, we could have a debate about whetherit should be that broad.(22)
现在,我们可以讨论它是否应该如此广泛。

(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: I'm sorry to interrupt. I knowyour time is limited.(23)
AMNA NAWAZ:很抱歉打断你。我知道你的时间有限。

He's, legally, of course, allowed to, butby declaring an emergency, there's an insinuation(24)
当然,他在合法的情况下被允许,但通过宣布紧急情况,这是一种暗示

there's an urgent need, there's a crisis insome way.(25)
迫切需要,在某种程度上存在危机。

I'm asking you to explain to us what thatemergency is.(26)
我要求你向我们解释一下紧急情况。

KRIS KOBACH: Yes.(27)
KRIS KOBACH:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: Why this needed to be done now.(28)
AMNA NAWAZ:为什么现在需要这样做。

KRIS KOBACH: Oh, OK, certainly, certainly.(29)
KRIS KOBACH:哦,好的,当然,当然。

Well, as the president illustrated with thepresence of the Angel families with him, we(30)
好吧,正如总统所说的那样天使家庭和他在一起,我们

have had multiple thousands of Americans killedin the last decade by illegal aliens who either(31)
在过去十年中,有数千名美国人被非法外国人杀害

commit homicide or are drunk driving and thenaccidentally kill an American.(32)
犯下杀人罪或醉酒驾驶然后不小心杀死了一名美国人。

Every one of the deaths could have been preventedif the wall had been in place, if the -- our(33)
如果墙已经到位,每一个死亡都可以被阻止,如果 - 我们的

border were more secure. In addition, youhave, of course, the many deaths from the(34)
边境更安全。此外,你当然有很多人死于此事

drug smuggling that's occurring. And thenyou also have multiple terrorists who have(35)
毒品走私正在发生。然后你也有多个恐怖分子

come across the southern border into the UnitedStates. And that's well-documented. There(36)
遇到南部边境进入美国。这是有据可查的。那里

have been multiple prosecutions of those people,some of those people.(37)
已经多次起诉那些人,其中一些人。

(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Mr. Kobach, I'm sorry againto interrupt.(38)
AMNA NAWAZ:嗯,Kobach先生,我很抱歉再次打断他。

(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: I have got to push back on this.(39)
AMNA NAWAZ:我必须回过头来。

KRIS KOBACH: Yes.(40)
KRIS KOBACH:是的。

AMNA NAWAZ: Those criminal numbers you'retalking about, those are -- those are statistically(41)
AMNA NAWAZ:你正在谈论的那些犯罪数字,那些是 - 统计上的

insignificant. There's no evidence that awall would have stopped any of them.(42)
微不足道。没有证据表明墙壁会阻挡它们中的任何一个。

The drug trafficking you mentioned, the vastmajority of those come through legal ports(43)
你提到的贩毒,其中绝大多数来自合法的港口

of entry. The terror threat deemed by yourown State Department last year was zero at(44)
进入你自己的国务院去年认为的恐怖威胁是零

the southern border.(45)
南部边境。

KRIS KOBACH: No, the -- the -- there havebeen multiple terrorists.(46)
KRIS KOBACH:不,有多个恐怖分子。

The numbers of terrorists that we have caughtcoming -- we actually don't catch them coming(47)
我们抓到的恐怖分子的数量 - 我们实际上并没有抓住他们的到来

across the border. We usually catch them insome other context. And then the Justice Department(48)
越过边境。我们通常在其他情况下捕捉它们。然后是司法部

prosecutes them and we find out that camein that way.(49)
起诉他们,我们发现那是以这种方式出现的。

As far as drugs, you're incorrect. There'sa misconception out there that because the(50)
就毒品而言,你是不正确的。那里有一种误解,因为

majority of drugs that we apprehended in thepast year came in at the ports of entry, therefore,(51)
我们在过去一年中逮捕的大部分毒品都来自入境口岸,因此,

the majority of drugs do come in at the portof entry.(52)
大多数药物确实在入境口岸进入。

That's incorrect. The port of entry, we getto inspect every vehicle coming in. We have(53)
那是不对的。进入港口,我们检查每辆车进来。我们有

drug-sniffing dogs. We -- there's a far greatersum -- we don't know what it is because we(54)
毒嗅狗。我们 - 总和还要多得多 - 我们不知道它是什么,因为我们

only intercept about one-third of what comesacross between the ports of entry.(55)
只拦截进入港口之间的三分之一。

But to give you some statistics to back upwhat I'm saying that, in 1998, we deployed(56)
但是为了给你一些统计数据来支持我所说的,1998年,我们进行了部署

drones and aerial surveillance along the southernborder. The apprehensions of drug smuggling(57)
南部边境的无人机和空中监视。对毒品走私的担忧

between the ports of entry went up 45 percent.Was that because drug smuggling went up 45(58)
入境口岸之间增长了45%。那是因为毒品走私上升了45

percent? No. It's because we caught a largernumber.(59)
百分?不,这是因为我们捕获了更多的数字。

So it's generally the consensus there is certainlyas much coming between the ports of entry,(60)
因此,一般来说,进入港口之间肯定存在同样多的共识,

if not more, than what we are apprehendingat the ports of entry.(61)
如果不是更多,比我们在入境口岸逮捕的更多。

AMNA NAWAZ: Let me ask very briefly now, youobviously would like to see a wall built.(62)
AMNA NAWAZ:现在让我简单地问一下,你显然希望看到一堵墙。

The president would like to see a wall built.(63)
总统希望看到一堵墙。

The majority of Americans do not, though.Consistently in polling, more than 60 percent(64)
但是,大多数美国人没有这样做。在民意调查中,超过60%

of Americans are opposed to a wall in anyform.(65)
美国人反对任何形式的隔离墙。

So, is it worth the president diverting billionsof dollars of taxpayer dollars to pay for(66)
那么,总统是否值得转移数十亿美元的纳税人的钱来支付

a wall that only maybe a third of Americanseven want to see?(67)
一堵墙,只有三分之一的美国人甚至想看到?

KRIS KOBACH: I disagree a little bit withyour polling.(68)
KRIS KOBACH:我对你的民意调查不以为然。

I -- I have -- in the sense that I have seena zillion polls on this question. And it really(69)
我 - 我有 - 从某种意义上说,我在这个问题上看到过无数次的民意调查。真的

does depend on how you frame the question.You can get 60 percent opposed. You can get(70)
确实取决于你如何构建问题。你可以得到60%的反对。你可以得到

70 percent-plus in favor if you frame it ina way. It's one of those questions you can(71)
如果你以某种方式构建它,那么70%以上的人会赞成。这是你可以提出的问题之一

frame a million different ways.(72)
构建了一百万种不同的方式

But suffice it to say that a large percentof Americans want this. And suffice it to(73)
但足以说很多美国人都想要这个。并且足够了

say, if you ask Americans do they want a secureborder where people who are -- cannot smuggle(74)
比方说,如果你问美国人他们想要一个安全的边界,那里的人 - 不能走私

drugs easily and terrorists cannot enter easily,they will say yes.(75)
药物容易和恐怖分子无法轻易进入,他们会说是的。

A wall is a force multiplier. What it allowsis, it allows -- if you -- imagine you have(76)
墙是力量倍增器。它允许的是,它允许 - 如果你 - 想象你有

10 agents, Border Patrol agents in a sector,and they have got no wall whatsoever in 30(77)
10个代理人,一个部门的边境巡逻人员,他们在30年内没有任何墙

miles.(78)
英里。

Well, they're going to have a hard time patrollingit. But if you have got 20 of those 30 miles(79)
好吧,他们将很难巡逻它。但如果你有30英里中的20英里

covered with wall or a significant barrierthat stops pedestrian traffic, then those(80)
覆盖着墙壁或阻止行人交通的重要屏障,那些

10 agents only really have 10 miles to policein a very aggressive way.(81)
10名特工真正以十分激进的方式向警察行驶了10英里。

And I have seen it myself on the border. Iwas just down there last week. That's exactly(82)
我自己也在边境看过它。上周我就在那里。这是完全正确的

what's happening in Arizona. The agents have-- they're able to use the barrier sections(83)
在亚利桑那州发生了什么。代理人 - 他们能够使用屏障部分

to with -- and deploy fewer agents there,so then they can take the majority of the(84)
使用 - 并在那里部署更少的代理,这样他们就可以占用大部分代理

agents and put them where there is no barrier.(85)
代理商并把它们放在没有障碍的地方。

(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Understood, Mr. Kobach. You believea wall would solve many of those problems.(86)
AMNA NAWAZ:了解,Kobach先生。你相信一堵墙可以解决许多问题。

I apologize. And I appreciate your time verymuch.(87)
我道歉。我非常感谢你的时间。

KRIS KOBACH: I do.(88)
KRIS KOBACH:我知道。

AMNA NAWAZ: Former Kansas Secretary of StateKris Kobach, thanks for being with us.(89)
AMNA NAWAZ:堪萨斯州前国务卿Kris Kobach,感谢与我们在一起。


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