Trump escalates impeachment battle, refusing to cooperate with inquiry
2019-10-08 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: President Trump is taking hisimpeachment battle to the next level.(1)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):特朗普总统正在将弹imp之战推向新的高度。

Late today, the White House informed congressionalDemocrats that it will not cooperate with(2)
今天晚些时候,白宫通知国会民主党人,它将不与

their inquiry.(3)
他们的询问。

That came hours after presidential aides barreda key witness from testifying.(4)
数小时后,总统助手禁止主要证人作证。

Congressional correspondent Lisa Desjardinsreports on the day's events.(5)
国会通讯员丽莎·德斯贾丁(Lisa Desjardins)报道了当天的活动。

LISA DESJARDINS: The day started with a hardstop.(6)
LISA DESJARDINS:艰难的一天开始了。

REP.(7)
代表

ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): We were informed aboutan hour-and-a-half ago that -- by the attorney(8)
ADAM SCHIFF(D-CA):一个半小时前,我们被告知-律师

for Ambassador Sondland that the State Departmentwould refuse to allow him to testify today.(9)
桑德兰大使认为,国务院将拒绝让他今天作证。

LISA DESJARDINS: House Intelligence ChairmanAdam Schiff announcing a key interview was(10)
丽莎·戴斯丁(Lisa DESJARDINS):众议院情报主席亚当·希夫(Adam Schiff)宣布了一次重要采访

canceled, with the U.S. ambassador to theE.U., Gordon Sondland.(11)
被美国驻欧盟大使戈登·桑德兰(Gordon Sondland)取消。

He's a potential witness for both sides.(12)
他是双方的潜在证人。

Sondland was among those texting in Augustabout how the president wanted Ukraine to(13)
桑德兰(Sondland)是8月份发短信说总统希望乌克兰如何

launch specific investigations, includingof Vice President Biden and his son Hunter.(14)
展开具体调查,包括拜登副总统和他的儿子亨特。

At one point, Sondland texted that the presidentreally wants the deliverable.(15)
桑德兰曾一度发短信说,总统真的很想交付成果。

At another, he said the president wanted noquid pro quo, meaning no attempt to trade(16)
在另一场会议上,他说总统不希望交换任何东西,这意味着没有试图进行交易的尝试。

aid money for investigations.(17)
协助调查。

"NewsHour" has confirmed that, in the hoursbefore that no quid pro quo text, Sondland(18)
“新闻时报”已经确认,在没有书面报价的几小时前,桑德兰

communicated with the president.(19)
与总统沟通。

Hours later, the White House sent a letterto top House Democrats, saying their proceedings(20)
几个小时后,白宫致信高级民主党议员,说他们的诉讼程序

are unfair and unconstitutional and refusingto cooperate further.(21)
不公平,违宪并拒绝进一步合作。

This morning, the president tweeted that Sondlandcould not testify because the committee is(22)
今天早上,总统在推特上说,桑德兰无法作证,因为委员会

"a kangaroo court, where true facts are notallowed out for the public."(23)
“袋鼠法庭,不允许向公众公开真实情况。”

His Republican allies, like Congressman JimJordan, are echoing that message.(24)
他的共和党盟友,例如众议员吉姆·乔丹,都在回响这一信息。

REP.(25)
代表

JIM JORDAN (R-OH): We would encourage AdamSchiff to run a fair process.(26)
吉姆·约旦(R-OH):我们鼓励亚当·希夫(Adam Schiff)进行公正的程序。

LISA DESJARDINS: Jordan is referring to thehandling of other testimony by U.S. envoy(27)
丽莎·德贾丁:约旦指的是美国特使对其他证词的处理

to Ukraine Kurt Volker.(28)
乌克兰库尔特·沃尔克。

Republicans say his closed-door testimonybacks up the president, and the public should(29)
共和党人说,他的秘密证词支持了总统,公众应该

see a transcript.(30)
看到成绩单。

But Democrats, including Schiff, say Volkerproves their points, and, to them, the president(31)
但是包括希夫在内的民主党人说,沃尔克证明了自己的观点,总统也向他们证明了

is the one refusing to follow the law by blockingtheir investigation.(32)
是通过阻止调查来拒绝遵守法律的人。

Today, Schiff and other Democrats announcedthey will subpoena Sondland.(33)
今天,希夫和其他民主党人宣布将对桑德兰进行传唤。

And they indicated that blocking his testimonymay be an impeachable offense itself.(34)
他们表示,封锁他的证词本身可能是一项难以理解的罪行。

REP.(35)
代表

ADAM SCHIFF: The failure to produce this witness,the failure to produce these documents, we(36)
亚当·希夫(ADAM SCHIFF):我们未能提供该证人,未能提供这些文件,

consider yet additional strong evidence ofobstruction of obstruction of the constitutional(37)
考虑阻碍宪法的其他有力证据

functions of Congress, a co-equal branch ofgovernment.(38)
国会的平等职能部门,国会的职能。

LISA DESJARDINS: Here are Democrats' options.(39)
丽莎·戴丝汀(LISA DESJARDINS):这是民主党的选择。

They can hold Sondland or others involvedin contempt, then go to court to try to compel(40)
他们可以拘禁Sondland或其他temp视他人的人,然后去法院试图强迫

testimony.(41)
见证。

That is something that often takes years toresolve.(42)
这通常需要数年才能解决。

Or, at some point, Democrats could considerit all obstruction and move directly to articles(43)
或者,在某个时候,民主党人可以考虑所有这些障碍,直接进入文章

impeachment on that charge.(44)
弹charge的指控。

Meantime, Republicans in the Capitol are makingdecisions, too.(45)
同时,国会大厦中的共和党人也在做出决定。

In the Senate, Trump defender Lindsey Grahamof South Carolina today invited the president's(46)
在参议院,南卡罗来纳州的特朗普后卫林赛·格雷厄姆今天邀请了总统的

attorney, Rudy Giuliani, to testify to theSenate Judiciary Committee about how he sees(47)
律师鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)向参议院司法委员会作证,说明他的看法

corruption in Ukraine.(48)
乌克兰的腐败。

On impeachment, the White House and Congressare talking about substance, but clearly making(49)
弹imp时,白宫和国会正在谈论实质,但显然

strategic decisions about choreography.(50)
编舞的战略决策。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And Lisa joins me now, alongwith our White House correspondent, Yamiche(51)
茱蒂·伍德鲁夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):丽莎(Lisa)现在和我一起加入白宫通讯社Yamiche

Alcindor.(52)
Alcindor。

So, Yamiche, to you first.(53)
所以,Yamiche,首先给您。

The White House today blocking AmbassadorSondland, saying he cannot testify, what does(54)
白宫今天封锁了桑德兰大使,称他无法作证,

this say about how they plan to handle everythingthat the Congress is trying to do?(55)
这说明他们计划如何处理国会试图做的一切?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The president is makingcrystal clear that he doesn't plan to comply(56)
亚米奇·奥尔辛多(YAMICHE ALCINDOR):总统明确表示他不打算遵守

with any document requests coming from Democratsrelated to this impeachment inquiry.(57)
以及与弹imp调查有关的民主党提出的任何文件请求。

He's also making it clear that he will blockwitnesses because he doesn't think the Democrats(58)
他还明确表示将封锁证人,因为他不认为民主党人

are going about this fairly.(59)
正为此做准备。

Now, I want to read parts of the White House'sletter to House Democrats that was released(60)
现在,我想阅读白宫给众议院民主党的信中的部分内容

just a couple moments ago.(61)
就在片刻之前。

I want to now walk you through what it says.(62)
我现在想带您了解它的内容。

It says that the Democrats' impeachment inquiryis -- quote -- "constitutionally invalid and(63)
它说,民主党的弹each调查是-引用-“在宪法上无效,

violates basic due process rights and theseparation of powers."(64)
违反了基本的正当程序权利和三权分立。”

It also says that the inquiry -- quote -- "seeksto reverse the election of 2016 and to influence(65)
它还说,调查-引用-“寻求扭转2016年大选并影响

the election of 2020."(66)
2020年选举。”

It also says that the president did nothingwrong and there is -- quote -- "no legitimate(67)
它还说,总统没有做错任何事,而且引用-“没有合法的

basis for your impeachment inquiry."(68)
弹inquiry调查的依据。”

So the White House is now making the casethat the president, if he had due process,(69)
因此,白宫现在正在证明总统,如果他有适当的程序,

would be allowed to cross-examine witnesses,would be allowed to look at evidence, would(70)
被允许盘问证人,被允许看证据,

be allowed to call his own witnesses.(71)
被允许打电话给自己的证人。

And it's also clear that the White House,though, has not exactly decided how it will(72)
而且很明显,白宫还没有完全决定如何

cooperate and when it will cooperate, becausethis letter stops short of saying that the(73)
合作以及何时合作,因为这封信不言而喻

House has to have a floor vote on an impeachmentinquiry.(74)
众议院必须对弹each调查进行投票。

Just a few moments ago, I put the questionto the White House: What will make you cooperate?(75)
不久前,我向白宫提出了一个问题:什么会让您合作?

If a House did hold a floor vote, would youthen provide documents?(76)
如果众议院确实进行了表决,那么您会提供文件吗?

And the White House said, well, that's a hypotheticalissue.(77)
白宫说,那是一个假设的问题。

We might look at that in the future.(78)
将来我们可能会考虑。

So it's not clear what would make the WhiteHouse actually cooperate and stop blocking(79)
所以目前尚不清楚什么将使白宫真正合作并停止封锁

witnesses.(80)
目击者。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Lisa, we now see the administrationsaying, we're not going to cooperate, stonewalling,(81)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫(JUDY WOODRUFF):因此,丽莎,我们现在看到政府在说,我们不会合作,阻碍,

in effect.(82)
有效。

How is the House, how are Democrats reacting?(83)
众议院如何,民主党对此有何反应?

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, I'm looking at my phone,because, honestly, as Yamiche was speaking(84)
LISA DESJARDINS:嗯,我正在看手机,因为说实话Yamiche在讲话

now, I had sources confirming -- now it lookslike we have the official release -- that(85)
现在,我有消息来源确认-现在看来我们已经发布了正式版本-

House Democrats have, in fact, issued thesubpoena for Gordon Sondland, our U.S. ambassador(86)
实际上,众议院民主党人已经为美国大使戈登·桑德兰(Gordon Sondland)发出了传票

to the E.U.(87)
到欧盟

So they are getting ready for this fight.(88)
因此,他们已经准备好进行这场战斗。

Democrats have to consider, as we have laidout in this report, whether they start moving(89)
正如我们在本报告中所述,民主党人必须考虑他们是否开始行动。

toward contempt.(90)
轻视。

And as we explained, that could be a courtprocess.(91)
正如我们所解释的,这可能是法院程序。

But also Judy, tonight, I had more Democratssaying they are thinking seriously about something(92)
但是朱迪,今晚,我有更多的民主党人说他们正在认真考虑某件事

called inherent contempt, where Congress operateswithout a court and starts assessing fees(93)
所谓的固有蔑视,即国会在没有法院的情况下运作,并开始评估费用

to those officials it believes are not cooperating.(94)
对于那些他们认为没有合作的官员。

That does set up a constitutional collisionthat we have to watch for.(95)
这确实造成了我们必须注意的宪法冲突。

Other thing to watch for this week, Judy,the next person who's supposed to testify,(96)
下周值得关注的另一位朱迪(Judy),

that is the former Ukraine Ambassador Mashaor Marie Yovanovitch.(97)
那是前乌克兰大使玛莎或玛丽·约瓦诺维奇。

There she is.(98)
她在这里。

She's scheduled to testify Friday.(99)
她定于周五作证。

And you would think, because of the WhiteHouse's position, there's not a lot of chance.(100)
您会认为,由于白宫的位置,机会不多。

But I talked to some Democrats tonight whosaid they actually are hopeful that she will(101)
但是我今晚与一些民主党人交谈,他们说他们实际上希望她会

appear.(102)
出现。

One other note in all of this.(103)
所有这一切的另一注。

We had some news about the Mueller reporttoday.(104)
今天我们有一些有关穆勒报告的消息。

I want to show this court ruling that cameout today from a court in Washington, D.C.(105)
我想展示今天从华盛顿特区一家法院得出的法院裁决

This is a court ruling directing the Departmentof Justice to start giving some more information(106)
这是法院判决,指示司法部开始提供更多信息

to House Democrats that they are requestingin the Mueller investigation, in some ways(107)
在某些方面向在穆勒调查中要求的众议院民主党人

scolding the Department of Justice for withholdingsome of that information.(108)
责骂司法部隐瞒某些信息。

It's not the bulk that they wanted, but it'ssort of -- for Democrats, that's progress.(109)
这不是他们想要的大部分,但对于民主党人来说,这是进步。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So interesting, because wethought that was in the past.(110)
JUDY WOODRUFF:非常有趣,因为我们认为那是过去。

But we see it's still living, in so many words.(111)
但是我们可以看到它仍然活着,用了很多话。

So, Yamiche, separately, news reports todaythat the White House has been talking to or(112)
因此,Yamiche今天分别有新闻报道说白宫一直在与或

even hiring outside legal counsel to helpthem deal with this impeachment matter.(113)
甚至聘请外部法律顾问来帮助他们处理弹imp问题。

What are we learning about that?(114)
我们从中学到什么?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: It looks like the WhiteHouse is starting to develop an impeachment(115)
亚米奇·奥尔辛多:看来白宫正在开始弹an

inquiry plan that's going to be both messagingand a legal strategy.(116)
查询计划将既是消息传递又是法律策略。

Presidents in the past have hired outsidelegal counsel.(117)
过去,总统曾聘请外部法律顾问。

We were waiting to see if the White Housewas going to do that.(118)
我们正在等待,看看白宫是否会这样做。

And now it looks like President Trump is goingto be looking at hiring outside counsel.(119)
现在看来,特朗普总统将要考虑聘请外部顾问。

And that's because this is all really deepening.(120)
那是因为这真的在加深。

You had today reports that the whistle-blowerwrote a memo saying that, after the call that(121)
您今天有报道说,举报人写了一条备忘录说,

President Trump had with the president ofUkraine, that White House officials were visibly(122)
特朗普总统与乌克兰总统达成共识,白宫官员显然是

shaken and that they thought it was crazy,and they were frightened by the fact that(123)
摇了摇,他们认为这太疯狂了,他们被以下事实吓到了:

the president allegedly tried to pressurethe president of Ukraine to investigate Joe(124)
据称总统试图向乌克兰总统施加压力,要求对乔进行调查

Biden for his own political gain.(125)
拜登为自己谋取政治利益。

So what you have there is some firsthand knowledge,as well as a memo that's now coming out.(126)
因此,您所拥有的是一些第一手的知识,以及即将发布的备忘录。

So the White House is really trying to figureout how to deal with all of this.(127)
因此,白宫确实试图找出如何处理所有这些问题的方法。

On top of all of that, Rudy Giuliani saysthat he's going to be thinking possibly about(128)
最重要的是,鲁迪·朱利安尼(Rudy Giuliani)说,他将可能在考虑

taking Lindsey Graham up on his offer andcoming to testify before the Senate.(129)
接受林赛·格雷厄姆(Lindsey Graham)的邀请,并向参议院作证。

He said he's not decided whether or not he'sgoing to do that.(130)
他说,他还没有决定是否要这样做。

But that also could be a legal issue thatthe White House now has to have more lawyers(131)
但这也可能是一个法律问题,白宫现在必须有更多的律师

to deal with.(132)
处理。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, so much to look at.(133)
JUDY WOODRUFF:好吧,值得一看。

And, Lisa, separately from all of this, today,you have the Senate Intelligence Committee(134)
而且,丽莎(Lisa)与所有这些事情分开,今天,您有参议院情报委员会

issuing its report, finally, looking at Russianinterference in the 2016 election.(135)
最后发表报告,着眼于俄罗斯干预2016年大选。

We have heard about it before.(136)
我们以前听说过。

But what is in this new report?(137)
但是这份新报告中有什么?

LISA DESJARDINS: The intelligence can be brokeup its reports.(138)
LISA DESJARDINS:该情报可能会破坏其报告。

So, this one today is focused on the use ofsocial media.(139)
因此,今天的这一主题着重于社交媒体的使用。

And let's look quickly at their conclusions.(140)
让我们快速查看他们的结论。

This is a bipartisan report.(141)
这是两党报告。

That's one thing that's critical about this.(142)
这是至关重要的一件事。

Republicans agreed with these conclusions.(143)
共和党人同意这些结论。

There was a calculated assault on the U.S.,number one.(144)
对美国进行了一次有计划的攻击,排名第一。

The goal was to harm candidate Hillary Clintonand to support candidate Donald Trump, and(145)
目的是伤害候选人希拉里·克林顿并支持候选人唐纳德·特朗普,以及

also that it was sanctioned by the Kremlin.(146)
也受到克里姆林宫的制裁。

Judy, all of that significant, because someof this is what the White House has not always(147)
朱迪,所有这些意义重大,因为白宫并不总是这样

agreed with.(148)
同意。

But here we have a bipartisan conclusion.(149)
但是,在这里我们有两党的结论。

Some unexpected or I think new informationin this report, one more -- a few more things(150)
我认为本报告中有一些意料之外的新信息,还有-还有几件事

to look at, they believe -- they found thatthe most targeted group in America was African-Americans.(151)
他们认为-他们发现,美国针对性最强的人群是非裔美国人。

Part of the Russian divide strategy was tofocus on black Americans.(152)
俄罗斯分裂策略的一部分是针对黑人。

Also, the senators here of both parties imploringthe White House to act now across all agencies,(153)
此外,双方参议员恳请白宫立即在所有机构中采取行动,

and they say Congress needs to come up witha better data security law overall.(154)
他们说,国会需要整体上制定出更好的数据安全法。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And just quickly, Yamiche,what are they saying at the at the White House(155)
JUDY WOODRUFF:很快,Yamiche,他们在白宫的讲话

about this?(156)
对这个?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: The White House has notcommented on this report coming from the Senate.(157)
雅米·奥尔辛多:白宫未对参议院的这份报告发表评论。

And that fits a pattern, because the presidenthas been loathe to talk about Russian interference(158)
这恰好符合一个模式,因为总统一直不愿谈论俄罗斯的干涉

in the 2016 election, because he thinks thatit hurts his legitimacy as president.(159)
在2016年大选中,因为他认为这会损害他担任总统的合法性。

He doesn't like talking about that.(160)
他不喜欢谈论这个。

The White House says that this is a WhiteHouse that has pushed back on Russia and other(161)
白宫说,这是一个白宫,已经推翻了俄罗斯和其他国家。

countries trying to interfere in the 2016election and in the 2020 election.(162)
试图干预2016年大选和2020年大选的国家。

But it is really important to note that, intheir letter to House Democrats, they're actually(163)
但必须特别注意的是,在给众议院民主党的信中,他们实际上是

now accusing Nancy Pelosi and others of doingwhat Russia is accused of doing in 2016.(164)
现在指责南希·佩洛西(Nancy Pelosi)和其他人做俄罗斯在2016年被指责的事情。

They say that Democrats are trying to influencethe 2020 election with this impeachment inquiry.(165)
他们说,民主党人正在试图通过弹imp调查影响2020年大选。

So what you have is them not commenting onthis, but also making that -- making the argument(166)
因此,您所拥有的是他们不对此发表评论,但也要对此进行评论

that this is what Democrats are now doing.(167)
这就是民主党现在正在做的事情。

JUDY WOODRUFF: So much to follow today, somuch.(168)
JUDY WOODRUFF:今天有太多要关注的事情了。

Yamiche...(169)
Yamiche ...

LISA DESJARDINS: And it's Tuesday, I think.(170)
丽莎·戴斯丁:我想是星期二。

(LAUGHTER)
JUDY WOODRUFF: It's only Tuesday.(171)
朱迪·伍德鲁夫:只是星期二。

Yamiche Alcindor, Lisa Desjardins, thank you.(172)
Yamiche Alcindor,Lisa Desjardins,谢谢。


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