Amy Walter and Tamara Keith on James Comey’s Trump take
2018-04-16 00:00:00


JUDY WOODRUFF: President Trump might be inFlorida this week, but the political drama(1)
JUDY WOODRUFF:特朗普总统本周可能在佛罗里达州,但政治戏剧

resonated today from Washington to New York,and beyond.(2)
今天从华盛顿到纽约及其他地方引起了共鸣。

Here to discuss all that, it's time for PoliticsMonday with Tamara Keith of NPR and Amy Walter(3)
这里要讨论所有这些,星期一是NPR的Tamara Keith和Amy Walter的政治时间

of The Cook Political Report.(4)
库克政治报告。

Welcome to you both, Politics Monday.(5)
欢迎你们,周一政治。

So, Tamara, I don't know if you call it politicaldrama or something else, but James Comey,(6)
所以,塔玛拉,我不知道你把它叫做政治戏剧还是别的什么,但是詹姆斯科米,

the former FBI director, is making quite atour after his book came out a few days ago.(7)
这位前联邦调查局局长,几天前他的书出来后正在进行一场巡回演出。

What do you make of the early -- the readingand the talking?(8)
你早期做什么 - 阅读和谈话?

TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: So, Ithink that what stands out, especially from(9)
TAMARA KEITH,国家公共广播电台:所以,我认为这一点尤其突出

the interview last night that he did, whichwas an hour-long special on ABC, and the interviews(10)
他昨天晚上接受了采访,这是他在ABC做的一个长达一小时的特别采访

that have been following and the reactionto it is that this is the James Comey that(11)
一直以来,对此的反应是这是James Comey的

everyone remembers.(12)
大家都记得。

This is someone who Democrats are still verymad about what he did in the lead-up to the(13)
这是一个民主党人对于他在领导人会议上所做的事情仍然非常生气的人

election.(14)
选举。

Republicans still don't like him, and theyaren't going to like what he's saying about(15)
共和党人仍然不喜欢他,他们不会喜欢他所说的话

President Trump.(16)
特朗普总统。

And he is this remarkably polarizing figurewho sort of puts himself at the center of(17)
而他就是这个极其极端的人物,他把自己置于中心位置

it and says he's doing things, that he madethese decisions all out of the same sense(18)
并且说他正在做的事情,他做出这些决定都是出于同样的意思

of principle and higher purpose.(19)
的原则和更高的目标。

But, wow, we are just like right back in 2016-2017all over again.(20)
但是,哇,我们就像在2016 - 2017年一样。

AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Yes,it is.(21)
库克政治报告AMY WALTER:是的。

It's like we cannot let the 2016 electiongo.(22)
这就像我们不能让2016年的选举一样。

And much of that interview was a rehash ofthe 2016 campaign and decisions made during(23)
这次采访中的大部分内容都是对2016年竞选活动以及在此期间作出的决定的重演

that campaign.(24)
该活动。

So it just feels, yes, like there is a littlebit of, like, oh, gosh, we can never get this(25)
所以它只是觉得,是的,就像有一点,就像,哦,天哪,我们永远不会得到这个

out of our system.(26)
超出我们的系统。

The other piece is, there really wasn't anythingnew in here.(27)
另一件事是,这里真的没有什么新东西。

Right?(28)
对?

You didn't see or hear anything from theseinterviews or from any of the excerpts from(29)
你没有看到或听到任何这些采访或任何摘录

this book that suggests that there is a newpiece of evidence that he held back in talking(30)
这本书表明他有一个新的证据,他阻止说话

about publicly, or that -- and I think thisis very important -- that he could say definitively(31)
关于公开或者说 - 我认为这非常重要 - 他可以明确地说

that there is something illegals that thepresident has done that would put him in jeopardy.(32)
总统所做的一些非法活动会使他处于危险之中。

He also, of course, went on to say, I don'tthink he should be impeached.(33)
当然,他还说,我不认为他应该被弹。。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.(34)
JUDY WOODRUFF:对。

AMY WALTER: So I think, if there's anythingthat was new, it might have been that.(35)
AMY WALTER:所以我认为,如果有什么是新的,那可能就是这样。

JUDY WOODRUFF: He expressed some strong viewsabout the president, said he's not fit for(36)
JUDY WOODRUFF:他表达了对总统的强烈看法,表示他不适合

office.(37)
办公室。

But you're right, nothing new.(38)
但是你是对的,没有新东西。

AMY WALTER: Absolutely.(39)
AMY WALTER:绝对如此。

TAMARA KEITH: Very strong.(40)
TAMARA KEITH:非常强大。

JUDY WOODRUFF: We interviewed Chuck Rosenberga little bit earlier in the program, who has(41)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我们在节目中稍早采访了Chuck Rosenberg,他有

worked for James Comey.(42)
为James Comey工作。

He said, I don't think this changes the Muellerinvestigation in any way.(43)
他说,我认为这不会以任何方式改变穆勒的调查。

In connection, though, Tam, with the Muellerinvestigation, today, in a federal courtroom,(44)
不过,就目前来看,在今天的联邦法庭上,

New York City, one of the president's lawyers,Michael Cohen, was there to try to pull back(45)
纽约市总裁的律师之一迈克尔科恩在那里试图撤退

some of that material that federal agentsraided his offices to take last week.(46)
联邦特工上周突袭他的办公室的一些材料。

A lot of eyes were on that courtroom becauseStormy Daniels, the porn -- adult film star,(47)
许多人的目光都集中在这个法庭上,因为色情电影成人电影明星风云人物丹尼尔斯(Stormy Daniels)

was there in the courtroom with her lawyer.(48)
在法庭上与她的律师在一起。

But are we -- where are we in that whole drama?(49)
但我们 - 我们在那整个戏剧中在哪里?

TAMARA KEITH: It is drama.(50)
TAMARA KEITH:这是戏剧。

It feels like "Law & Order: Presidential Unit"or something.(51)
感觉就像“法律与秩序:总统单位”等等。

It is very much a dramatic scene.(52)
这是一个戏剧性的场景。

You had also a lawyer representing the presidentof the United States arguing that, because(53)
你还有一位代表美国总统的律师争辩说,因为

of attorney-client privilege, he should beable to get a first bite at the apple on all(54)
律师 - 客户特权,他应该能够在苹果公司获得第一口

of this evidence.(55)
的证据。

My understanding is that the judge wasn'treceptive to that argument.(56)
我的理解是法官不接受这个论点。

You also then find out that Michael Cohen,he had to name who his clients were.(57)
然后你也会发现迈克尔科恩,他必须说出他的客户是谁。

He says that he has three clients.(58)
他说他有三个客户。

One is the president.(59)
一个是总统。

One was this big GOP donor who had to withdrawfrom being on the Finance Committee.(60)
一个是这个GOP捐助者不得不退出财政委员会。

And the other is Sean Hannity, the FOX Newspersonality, who has since tweeted, saying,(61)
另一位是福克斯新闻人物肖恩汉尼提,他自推特以来就表示,

well, I never paid Cohen anything.(62)
好吧,我从来没有给科恩任何东西。

It is perplexing.(63)
这是令人困惑的。

And if what Hannity is saying is true, thatactually helps the government's case, because(64)
如果汉尼提说的是真的,那实际上有助于政府的案件,因为

the government is arguing that Cohen didn'treally function as an attorney and thus shouldn't(65)
政府认为科恩并不真正起到律师的作用,因此不应该这样做

have attorney-client privilege.(66)
拥有律师 - 客户特权。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And these are the three peoplewhose papers were taken, the documents were(67)
JUDY WOODRUFF:这是三个人的文件被拿走,文件是

taken that related to conversations.(68)
采取与谈话有关。

AMY WALTER: That's right.(69)
AMY WALTER:是的。

And so now there is a debate over, is he aclient or is he just somebody who talked on(70)
所以现在有一场辩论,他是一个客户,还是他只是一个谈论的人

the phone and had conversations with MichaelCohen?(71)
电话,并与迈克尔科恩谈话?

What is privileged and what is not?(72)
什么是特权和什么不是?

But it does -- it feels like a reality showand that if the writers had told you that(73)
但它的确如此 - 感觉就像一个真人秀节目,如果作家告诉过你的话

coming out of this court date with MichaelCohen was going to be the revelation that(74)
与迈克尔科恩离开这个法庭日期就会成为启示

he is advising one of the strongest supportersof the president who goes on television with(75)
他建议成为电视台总裁的最强支持者之一

a show that is very supportive of the president-- I mean, in some ways, I guess it's not(76)
一个非常支持总统的节目 - 我的意思是,在某些方面,我想这不是

shocking.(77)
令人震惊。

But it really was shocking.(78)
但它确实令人震惊。

Of all the people to say, this is my secretclient...(79)
在所有的人说,这是我的秘密客户...

JUDY WOODRUFF: It was.(80)
JUDY WOODRUFF:是的。

It qualified as a surprise.(81)
这是一个惊喜。

(CROSSTALK)
TAMARA KEITH: The big reveal in this episodewas kind of a surprise.(82)
TAMARA KEITH:在这一集中的大曝光是一种惊喜。

JUDY WOODRUFF: All right, here's a U-turn.(83)
JUDY WOODRUFF:好的,这是一个掉头。

A couple of polls have come out -- can't gotoo many weeks without talking about polls(84)
几个民意调查已经出来 - 不用谈论民意调查就不会花太多的时间

-- showing, Tam, greater enthusiasm this yearto see Democrats elected than Republicans.(85)
- 显示,谭,今年看到民主党人比共和党人更热情。

Of course, a poll is always a snapshot.(86)
当然,民意调查总是一个快照。

We always say that, but it is part of a trendwe're seeing this year?(87)
我们总是这么说,但这是我们今年看到的趋势的一部分?

TAMARA KEITH: Yes.(88)
TAMARA KEITH:是的。

And Democrats, they are -- in some ways, Democraticvoters, it doesn't matter who the candidate(89)
民主党人,他们在某些方面是民主党的选民,候选人是谁

will be.(90)
将会。

They are going to the polls in November tomake a statement about President Trump, whereas(91)
他们将在11月份进行民意调查,以表明特朗普总统的声明,而

Republican voters, President Trump has toconvince them to go to the polls to make a(92)
共和党选民,特朗普总统必须说服他们去民意调查

statement in support of him.(93)
声明支持他。

Otherwise, they're trying to get them to talkabout -- to be edited about the tax legislation,(94)
否则,他们试图让他们谈论 - 编辑有关税收立法,

trying to get voters excited about the economy,which is chugging along.(95)
试图让选民们对经济感到兴奋,而这正在拖延着。

But for Democrats, it's pretty simple.(96)
但对于民主党来说,这很简单。

It's a protest.(97)
这是一种抗议。

AMY WALTER: Yes, this has always been a challengefor Democrats in an off-year election, because(98)
AMY WALTER:是的,这对于民主党人来说是一个挑战,因为

Republicans, just the kind of voters who identifyas Republican, a little bit older, more white(99)
共和党人,只是那些认定为共和党人的选民,有点老,更白

voters, turn out to vote in midterm elections.(100)
选民,在中期选举中投票。

The more diverse electorate, younger electorate,they vote in a presidential election.(101)
选民越多,选民越少,他们在总统选举中投票。

So Democrats are always trying to get thoseyounger voters or their base voters to come(102)
所以民主党人总是试图让那些年轻的选民或他们的基本选民来

out in a midterm.(103)
期中考试。

What's happening now, Tam's exactly right,they're coming out, that base is coming out(104)
现在发生的事情,谭的完全正确,他们出来了,基地出来了

at a rate that Republicans haven't seen inquite some time.(105)
这是共和党人在相当一段时间内还没有看到的。

So it's not even that Republicans don't -- theyhaven't faced that.(106)
所以共和党人甚至不这样做 - 他们没有面对这个问题。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Right.(107)
JUDY WOODRUFF:对。

AMY WALTER: It's not even that Republicansaren't going to turn out to vote.(108)
AMY WALTER:共和党人不会投票。

They absolutely can turn out to vote.(109)
他们绝对可以投票。

But that may not be enough because more Democratsare going to turn out than traditionally do(110)
但这可能还不够,因为更多的民主党人会比传统上做得更多

in a midterm year.(111)
在一个中期的一年。

And then we have to wait and see what independentsstart to do.(112)
然后我们必须等待,看看独立人士开始做什么。

They have been sour on the president now prettymuch universally from the beginning of his(113)
从他的开始,他们对总统的态度几乎是普遍的

presidency.(114)
总统。

Is that going to translate into votes in theelection?(115)
这是否会在大选中转化为选票?

We would suggest yes.(116)
我们会建议是的。

And then in all these special elections, inthe midterm elections we have had thus far,(117)
然后在所有这些特别选举中,我们到目前为止的中期选举中,

the off-term elections, this Democratic enthusiasmhas shown up by about eight points.(118)
在短期选举中,这个民主党的热情已经显现了大约八个点。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we only have seven moremonths to analyze all this.(119)
JUDY WOODRUFF:呃,我们只有七个月的时间来分析这一切。

AMY WALTER: To analyze each and every oneof them.(120)
AMY WALTER:分析他们每一个人。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And we will have to do it everyday, all day long.(121)
JUDY WOODRUFF:我们必须每天都这样做,整天。

Love it.(122)
爱它。

(LAUGHTER)
JUDY WOODRUFF: Amy Walter, Tamara Keith, thankyou both.(123)
JUDY WOODRUFF:Amy Walter,Tamara Keith,谢谢你们俩。

TAMARA KEITH: You're welcome.(124)
TAMARA KEITH:不客气。


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